Some people righteously boycott certain shopping experiences or coffee shops, but my line in the sand is the phenomenon known as the celebrity podcast. I quite smugly and obnoxiously refuse, on the grounds that celebrity podcasts have pushed out smaller, independent podcasts. I will not have it. I will not have it! You can keep your big, showy podcasts with excessive amounts of advertising, and I will be over here listening to two Australian women sharing their hatred for sunflowers, or two Irish women deep diving into Sweet Valley High.
But of course, there is always an exception, and for me that exception is Wiser Than Me, wherein Julia Louis-Dreyfus interviews older women who are celebrities. And now I will tell you that there is an exception to the exception; I very much enjoy these interviews and Julia’s style with one important caveat, which I will get to shortly.
Recently she interviewed Cyndi Lauper, of whom I have been a fan since I was eight years old, when She’s So Unusual was released, and this episode did not disappoint. I adored listening to her heavy Brooklyn accent – whaddya wanna know? – relate her take on life and zest for standing up for what she believes in. But most of all, I loved that she called out Julia for the question that I absolutely loathe, and grit my teeth about during every one of her interviews.
At the beginning of every interview, Julia asks if the woman is comfortable divulging her real age, and after that, she asks how old do you feel? My love for Cyndi Lauper was like the Grinch’s heart, exploding out of the little box it had been in before, as she called out the question as the bullshit garbage it is. When Julia expressed surprise that Cyndi, who is 72, said she feels 72, she replied:
Well, here’s what I think. I think it’s a bunch of bullshit that they give you these numbers and they tell you what you’re supposed to do at what age and what age you’re supposed to feel like this and what age you’re supposed to feel like that and I think it’s a load of crap.
I love her. How old do we FEEL? I don’t know about you, but I feel 51, because THIS IS WHAT FIFTY-ONE FEELS LIKE. Can we please normalise the idea that it’s okay to be the age we are and, relatedly, that how we feel does not need to correlate to a number? If I said I felt 92, the immediate thought would be that I frailly had one foot in the grave, not that I felt wise and gentle with the years. If I said I felt 22, it would be assumed that I was vibrant and sexy, and not riddled with self-doubt and insecurity. I very much dislike that “old” is used pejoratively, and “young” is the opposite. Listen, I get it, I get that there are things that are objectively difficult about aging, but also, it’s not like being young is always a bag of laughs, see also last week’s rant about Monica Lewinsky’s youthful indiscretion and the resulting turmoil for that poor young woman. I would never, ever trade my menopausal tum-tum for my previously stellar flat stomach if it meant I had to go back in time. I LIKE having these years behind me, I LIKE not second-guessing myself, I LIKE the feeling of having experience and knowledge and that there is more of that to come. Sure, I may no longer be able to put my legs behind my bed or run a sub-eight minute mile – or CAN I? I haven’t tried for a while – but that’s a small trade-off for this glorious peace of mind, this who-gives-a-shit attitude, the feeling that this is who I am, take it or leave it.
It’s like bananas.
I don’t mean it IS bananas, although it is, the worship of youth culture. I mean that we are literally like bananas. God bless the banana, I say, what a versatile and wonderful fruit. Bananas are delicious when they are still a bit greenish, they make a great smoothie when they are yellow and frozen, and when they become black and mushy and kind of grody, they make the absolute best baked goods. I ask you, what can’t a banana do? They are full of vitamins, potassium, iron, and fibre, they have electrolytes and prebiotics, they are essentially a superfood. They are reliably inexpensive and available year-round, and if you are travelling and are concerned about getting explosive diarrhea from a piece of fruit? Have a banana! They come pre-wrapped! You can pretend to make a phone call with them, you can make your mouth into a giant banana smile, and you can look deeply into your husband’s eyes while eating them, so he can uncomfortably look away.
There is a time and place for every stage of a banana’s life.
There is no judgement about which stage is better – they are all useful and delicious in their own way. All hail the humble banana, and all hail us, in all our glory, no matter what stage we are in. I feel like I am in the banana ice cream stage: kind of sweet and soft, good for a dessert, better with some chocolate sauce and Reece’s Pieces…you know what, I’m not sure this metaphor is working anymore.
Weekly Reading
The Elegance of the Hedgehog. This interesting little book involves a middle aged concierge in an expensive Parisian hotel particulier and a 12-year-old inhabitant of said building, both of whom hide their extensive, and kind of pretentious, intelligence in order to fit into society’s expectations for them. The concierge pretends to like things like cabbage and television – so pedestrian! – so that no one will know she’s a brilliant autodidact, while the 12-year-old has decided that privileged life has no meaning, and so she is going to set fire to the building and kill herself by her thirteenth birthday. Talk about preteen angst. When an intelligent Japanese gentleman moves into the building, things start to change for both of them; discoveries are made and friendships are created. It’s a statement on class-consciousness, to be sure, as well as the beauty of life and the power of connection.
Writers and Lovers. I first read this gorgeously-written book in 2022, and I wanted to reread it concurrently with the author’s latest, Heart the Lover, which is, interestingly, both a prequel and a sequel to Writers and Lovers. Alas, due to library holds, the concurrent read didn’t work out, but I think that’s for the better: I think the books work so beautifully stand-alone, with the “oh, THAT’S what happened” feeling of Heart the Lover. A concurrent read would highlight a big inconsistency with one of the major plot points of Heart the Lover, when compared with the character of Casey in Writers and Lovers. I know from an interview with Lily King that the big plot point was a late addition to one of the final drafts, and I like knowing that – I like knowing the process, and I think that plot point added so much to Heart the Lover, even if that means that some character details don’t stand up to close reading scrutiny. The tl;dr here is that I LOVE THIS BOOK and I also loved Heart the Lover, and I think they should be read and appreciated separately. I loved Writers and Lovers when I read it in 2022, and I love it even more now. It hit me differently this time around and affected me deeply.
Interestingly, I went to look up my 2022 review and it is in a post entitled “Psychological Long Covid” in which I talk about panicking at the grocery store, hoarding lemon juice, and also – callback to podcasts – eviscerate a book written by an obnoxious and privileged podcaster. Blog posts are such time capsules! And speaking of time capsules!
The Remains of the Day. Wow, this book. This book! I loved it so much. It combines two of my major interests: the staffing and running of great English houses, and the political ideologies and events in the years between the World Wars, hashtag I am a War History Buff Now. This book should be held up as the gold standard for showing, not telling. The narrator, who seems kind of like a robot, personality-wise, is not exactly unreliable, but the information we receive is limited and much is concealed. Slowly, we begin to see a clearer picture of both the butler’s life, and also the life of his employer. This is a slow burn and is really, really remarkable in the writing style. It is desperately sad and contains incredible insight. The quote that might stay with me forever is this: “You’ve got to enjoy yourself. The evening’s the best part of the day. Now you can put your feet up and enjoy it. That’s how I look at it. Ask anybody, they’ll all tell you. The evening’s the best part of the day.” As a metaphor, it’s incredible. As a book, it’s absolutely excellent. As a part of this blog post, it’s perfect.
My husband was camping this week, so after I finished The Remains of the Day and stared into space for a while, emotionally destroyed, I thought Maybe I should watch the movie! And friends, I should have learned my lesson from Hamnet, along with EVERY OTHER TIME I have watched a screen adaptation of a beloved book: don’t. Or, don’t watch the movie so close to reading the book, because instead of appreciating the film for what it is, I mentally pulled it apart for how it deviated from the book. Did I expect it to have that same emotional interiority of a book, even though that is impossible to show on screen? Did I expect the literary genius to come through? I told my older son I was going to watch the movie and he said, warningly, that I would be angry because it wasn’t the book. The young can teach us so much. He knows me better than I know myself. I do not like screen adaptations. I NEVER like screen adaptations. I am who I am, and who I am is a browning banana who needs to be peeled and put in the freezer before the fruit flies start swarming. I really don’t know what I am doing with this metaphor. xo
I love a Nicole Rant, and this is one of my favorites so far!!! YES, being and feeling the age you are is HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE. I am with you on not wanting to go back to my 22-year-old body if it means going back to my 22-year-old self. NO THANK YOU. Life is pretty fucking great at 45. Also, I do not like bananas, but I LOVED your banana analogy. Hell yeah, every age and stage has benefits and we should embrace those! Also, your list of things to do with a banana is hilarious and perfect. And that GIF. You are truly GIFted at finding the exact right GIFs, Nicole. I’m sorry, that was a terrible pun.
Also. What the hell, Julia Louis-Dreyfus? That is a stupid question, in so many ways. I adore JLD — she is a comic genius and her hair is #GOALS — but that question sucks. Good for Cyndi Lauper for answering it the way she did. I am not going to make a True Colors pun BUT I WANT TO.
I did think about your dislike for bananas when I was writing this, but I felt like you would still enjoy it!
JLD’s hair IS goals – for a while in the early 90s I really emulated her style. I really love her generally but I absolutely hate that question! If you haven’t listened, I would totally recommend it, because Cyndi Lauper is a blast to listen to!
I kid you not, when you started to criticize celebrity podcasts I thought “Wiser Than Me” is pretty good. It’s not in my regular rotation, but we listened to a few episodes while driving to and from Michigan because Beth thought her mom would appreciate it, being old enough to be interviewed on it. We heard the ones with Isabel Allende, Sally Fields, and at least one more I can’t remember.
I guess I must feel 59, which in my case is semi-sandwich generation. Working but part-time and with a retired spouse, not quite launched kids, and an ailing mother-in-law. I don’t know how to map this onto banana ripeness. Definitely not green or brown, maybe yellow with some speckles.
Hahaha, that’s so funny Steph! I do really like listening to all the older women talk about their lives and lessons learned. I think Cyndi is hands-down my favourite, but she has had some really great guests!
I think I’m yellow with some speckles too!
NICOLE. I love this so, so much. The question “how old do you feel” is deeply confusing. I mean- I’ve never been 60 before, so I didn’t have any preconceived notions of what 60 is “supposed” to feel like. The only real answer to that question is, I feel like myself, at the age of 60. (Side note- have you ever thought about publishing a book of essays? You could make a collection of your favorite blog posts and it would be INCREDIBLE).
Also- you and I have been liking the same books lately! I loved both those Lily King books, and I didn’t even realize they fit together until someone told me, after I read Heart the Lover- and it was such a fun realization. Also, I read Remains of the Day years ago and really loved it. I should reread it.
Oh Jenny, you are too kind! Thank you!!
RIGHT? How do we know how old we feel? WE HAVE NOT BEEN HERE BEFORE.
Let me know if you reread Remains of the Day – wow, it was SO good. I just stared into space for a long time after finishing it.
I love how your mind works and segueing from How Old do you feel to bananas! Brilliant! I have long been a fan of the Wiser Than Me podcast. I love JLD and the women she interviews. I’ve never really taken exception with the question: How old do you feel? I’ve thought it refers to how old do you feel in your mind, not your body. Because sometimes in my mind, I can’t believe how old I am! I would NEVER EVER want to be in 20’s or 30’s or even 40’s again. I like how far I’ve come. And now for the bananas – I prefer eating them when they’re greenish and a bit unripe. I only ever buy 2 or 3 at a time so they never get to the fully ripe stage. And I love your pic of Berrettini – the best-looking player in men’s tennis right now. Good choice! I read Elegance of the Hedgehog years ago and loved it.
I know what you mean, but I wouldn’t want to have the mind I had in my twenties – or even thirties or forties! So I am going to stick with my feeling of being 51.
I’m glad you liked that gif, even though I didn’t know who it was! I guess I just gave it my best shot, lol!
I LOVED Remains of the Day so so much. I enjoyed the film, though I didn’t see them close together like you did. It’s so hard to put such an internal book on film. There is also a film version of Elegance of the Hedgehog, and I’m pretty sure I saw it, but I don’t remember whether it’s good or not. I remember loving that book, then being angry about the ending, then loving the ending after all. Complicated. Now I wonder what the discrepancy is between Writers and Lovers and Heart the Lover and whether I caught it at the time (I read them right next to each other) or if I missed it.
I wonder whether JLD is going to keep asking that question, since CL schooled her on it. I have tried the banana ice cream thing, and yeah, it tastes like bananas and is pretty good. Do you ever give Rex a bit on a hot day (sans add ins, obviously)? I’ll bet he would love a little frozen treat. Mulder did.
J, I put peanut butter in my banana ice cream, and it tastes like peanut butter soft serve! If I’m in a different mood, I will add cocoa to the bananas and it tastes like a chocolate Frosty from Wendy’s. I’ve never had it just plain, although I do like bananas, I prefer something else for dessert.
And no! Never! Rex does NOT get anything like that because a) he is super fussy with a long memory, so if I gave him something and he loved it he’d be liable to stop eating his actual dog food, and b) he has a super-delicate digestive system and believe me, cleaning up after a dog that size who is having digestive issues is UNPLEASANT! But Barkley did like banana and my husband would often give him the end pieces when he was having one.
You’re right about bananas, of course… but I like only one stage of banana (an evening treat I share with the puppies) so is there another fruity metaphor? If anyone could find it, it would be you, Nicole!
A classic book haul, and a solid podcast rec!
I recognize your zukes… are the peaches from your garden too? SO luscious!
No, the peaches are from the farm market and they are so good right now!! The zukes are going insane, as usual, and so are the tomatoes. It’s a happy time (although not for the greens, they have all bolted with the heat, so I’m waiting a month or so to do another planting in cooler weather).
Hmm. What other fruit could we use? I will have a think on that!
Love this metaphor and it totally works! I’m putting Remains of the Day on my list and I’ve read the other two. The Elegance of the Hedgehog was a long time ago though, but I remember liking it. I need to try the JLD podcast, it sounds good. I admit I quite enjoy the Amy Poehler one simply because it makes me laugh, but I agree that I like the more ‘independent’ ones for what they are too. 🙂
I know you and I overlap on some of our independent pods! I think you would enjoy Lise and Sarah, the Australian one – it’s super fun and light.
Spot on! We’re all so unique and individual — the only age we know is ours, what it is, what it feels like, what we were, and what all has happened in those years. And I love the connection to the banana, a most versatile fruit! Being an English history-and-house/World War addict as well, I am surprised I’ve never read Remains of the Day and now it’s on the list. But you are so right about reading a book and viewing the film/video too soon after. I’ve done that more than once. Often I think that a story should be a mini-series instead of a film with time to unfold it all.
Oh, I think you might love Remains of the Day. It was so moving!
I love your banana metaphor! It’s so perfect. I mean, unripe bananas are terrible, and I kind of think being young is a little bit terrible. Like you, I don’t wish to return to my 20s or 30s. I’m content to be 45. I would like my metabolism of my 20s, though. The rest? F no.
I had DNF’s Remains of the Day but you are inspiring me to try it again at some point. I think I wasn’t in the mood to kind of ‘work’ at reading a book when I picked it up. Or maybe I will put it on my retirement TBR. I don’t technically have a list, but there are books I plan to try when I retire and have more mental capacity to read more challenging texts.
Ha! I mean, I wouldn’t turn down my little waist that I had in my twenties, or my perky breasts, but the rest, meh.
The Elegance of the Hedgehog. What a wild ride that book was. I was so upset at the beginning – why are all these people so terrible – and then I was sobbing by the end of it. I mean, that’s it, right? Everybody is terrible until you get to know them and then they’re not. Except for the few absolute jerks out there.
I do not care for bananas – my husband is allergic and I think they’re kind of squishy and smell bad – but I DO like banana bread, so maybe I don’t mind being an aging banana.
Oooh if you like banana bread, I bet you’d like the muffins I make – and I always add chocolate chips because life is better with chocolate chips!
The age thing. I understand your rage about the questions regarding our age and how we feel VS what we SHOULD feel. I mean, this is the first time I’ve been fifty-eight, so I’m assuming I’m doing it right? I generally feel like the age I am should MAKE ME FEEL OLDER than I actually feel. Perhaps that is just the media. I feel like I have stopped getting older (mind and body wise) around 45. But, looking back at photos, I am delusional. 🤣
I don’t know if any of that made sense.
I eat a banana every.single.day. If I don’t have any on hand, I say out loud: I NEED TO GO TO THE BANANA STORE. (which is just the grocery store) Also, I love eating a banana while staring at my husband; simple joys! Your banana analogy is perfect!
I LOVED Heart The Lover, so of course Writers & Lovers is on my reading list!
THE BANANA STORE. I love you, Suz. You are just so much fun! I think you’re doing 58 incredibly well! You’re a babe!
Great post, Nicole!!
Funny enough, I actually don’t mind the question “how old do you feel?” because I think it can lead to interesting conversations.
But the part that really bothers me is the question of whether someone is “comfortable” sharing their age. It implies that age is something we should be uncomfortable about and hide it.
We don’t ask people if they’re comfortable sharing their height, their eye colour, or the year they graduated. Age is simply another fact about us.
And like your banana analogy 😂 every stage has its own strengths and beauty.
Oh YES Catrina, I hate that part too. Why should we be uncomfortable to say our ages? I agree!
I love how you embrace the positive aspects of aging, and I’m with you – I’d never want to go back to my younger years for so many reasons! Even though my body has aged, I actually really like being 57. I’m grateful to be 57! There was a time, when I was first diagnosed with ocular melanoma, that I feared I might not make it to this age. This body has carried me through some serious trauma. Your banana analogy is awesome, and you inspire me so much!
Oh, Michelle, I am SO glad you are here, and may you be here for a long, long time! I think about that all the time, about friends I knew who did not make it to this age. We are so lucky to be, as one of my senior yoga students used to say, on this side of the grass.
“I LIKE having these years behind me, I LIKE not second-guessing myself, I LIKE the feeling of having experience and knowledge and that there is more of that to come.”
I have zero desire to go back and relive any stage of my life and I am truly excited for what’s to come. I feel so much more confident in many ways at this age. I mean, do I still faff about my cellulite a bit. Maybe, but SO much less than before.
When people talk about wishing they could keep their kids young or go back in time… I just don’t fully get it. I feel so much more settled and secure in my current age and also feel like that will just flourish more as I get older.
I love bananas; slices of banana on PB toast is my absolute favourite way to enjoy bananas. Second would be a warm banana muffin. SO GOOD!
Wow Nicole, what a great rant. I find this really interesting. I LOVE Julia LD and never really thought about the question. I do have some thoughts. I am 70 with a birthday very soon. I always ‘forgot’ my age and continued to do a lot of things (for example hiking 2 Caminos, running marathons into my 60’s) that many much younger wouldn’t consider. But 70 hit me hard. First I had a fall on my tailbone 18 months ago, while running in Mexico and 2 dogs came at me. Struggling with pain ever since has really interfered with my usual level of activity. I am however not giving up on resolving this. I have heard many others say ‘oh well, I’m x age and this is just the way it is”. Nope. As to how age hits you emotionally, I was fine with 50 and even 60, but 70; whoa. My husband and I were just talking about this this morning, thinking of my impending birthday. At 70 you cannot deny that you’re definitely closer to the end than the beginning. I have also lost a few friends in the past weeks, my age or younger and very unexpectedly – that drives home that you really never know what tomorrow holds. My angst of my age is that I’m just not ready. I have so much left to do. My 11th grandchild is due at the end of the year and I want to be the best grandma ever for decades more. It is weird but when I think of my next birthday I feel very emotional and not in a good way. So there. I told you I had a lot of thoughts on this. ps your banana analogies were hilarious!