During our semi-recent trip to Southeast Asia, my husband and I were chatting with some members of our tour group when the topic of travelling with best friends came up. One lovely lady, Helene, gestured to the man beside her. Well, she said, Nick is my best friend. My husband and I exchanged glances, both of us thinking at the same time that we had had the wrong idea all along. Oh, my husband said finally. I thought you two were MARRIED. Helene looked at us strangely. We ARE married, she said. I married my best friend.
I thought that was very sweet, and I am always happy when other people are happy, but wow, I cannot relate at all. Do not get me wrong: I love my husband, we are very compatible, and I enjoy his company immensely. I think we have a beautiful, fun, fulfilling life together, but in no world do I consider him to be my best friend. In my mind, “husband” and “best friend” are two completely separate concepts. If you marry your best friend, then who do you talk about your spouse with? The snake is eating its tail!
For a few months now, I have been intermittently thinking about a situation my friend Swistle (HI SWISTLE) found herself in: she had planned a coffee date with a former colleague, and at the last minute that colleague texted to say that her husband was going to come along. I’ll just let you digest that for a moment. A former colleague casually mentioned that her husband, heretofore unknown to Swistle, was going to join the coffee date scheduled between the two women. Frankly, I would have fallen over like a tree hand-chopped by an old-timey lumberjack with the shock, even if it was one of my friends whose husbands I DO know and am friendly with. Even if said husband was said friend’s best friend, as with Nick and Helene, I would STILL be distressed at the idea. What world do we live in where a coffee date gets crashed by a husband?
Under no circumstances could I fathom just randomly bringing my own husband along to a coffee date with a girlfriend. Still less could I fathom my husband suggesting that he join us. This behaviour is baffling, to say the least. But then! It happened AGAIN. Swistle made another coffee date with this woman and, AGAIN, at the last minute the friend informed her that her husband was going to join them. Twice makes a pattern, in my mind. Once? It’s weird. Twice? Something strange and unsettling is afoot.
My immediate thought was that this man was one of those atrocious, overbearing bores who cannot bear that their wives have a social life outside of their own twosome. I was a bit nervous that perhaps that woman was being, if not abused, then certainly domineered. Then I thought that maybe he was one of those overly-social joes who insist on being the centre of attention and the life of the party, to the detriment of all his relationships. We all know the type; the fellow who thinks everyone benefits from knowing him, and who wants to be involved in everything, all the while irritating every person in his sphere.
Now, one might reasonably say but what about the woman in this scenario? Does she not have any agency and responsibility here? And indeed. I have a tendency, much to my husband and sons’ mild exasperation, to place the blame squarely in the testosterone column in most scenarios, like Miss Cornelia. Isn’t that just like a man? But I am an open-minded person, and so I do feel that some of the onus here is on the woman. Of course, if we are in the first situation, then it is possible she is an exhausted, beaten-down woman who is used to her borderline emotionally-abusive husband not allowing her to exist outside of his realm, and therefore she is deserving of great sympathy. But if it’s the second situation, she might still be exhausted and beaten-down, but in the way of the girlfriend of the guy who is wearing a Hawaiian shirt and a lampshade on his head at every party. Perhaps she’s powerless in the face of his extreme social extroversion, but my own sympathy would be a little stretched. In either case, I want her to rise up, rise up. There is also the scenario in which the couple are best friends, and the woman feels that lives are enriched by knowing her dreamboat husband, and in this case, I have no sympathy whatsoever.
But then a new situation arose in my mind, and in the minds of many of Swistle’s readers, and that is that they are swingers and are courting her. Key parties ahoy! This certainly makes things more interesting, albeit unsettling. I don’t have any swingers in my life – that I know of. Given my history of being completely clueless when someone has been romantically or sexually interested in me until things become SO CLEAR that there is no room for misinterpretation, it’s perfectly possible that I could be courted for swinging without having any idea. I don’t think that’s happening to me, but who can say, really. In any case, I do find the whole concept of swinging to be pretty wild. We all deserve to be happy, and I don’t want to yuck anyone’s yum, but also? I find it kind of distasteful in a fascinating way. I was talking with my son about polyamory and open marriages, and as he succinctly put it: One person is super happy with the whole thing, and the other person has dead eyes. I think that sums it up quite admirably.
Really. Who has the energy? I personally can only manage one dog at a time, let alone anything else. How would anyone get anything done? A long while ago I heard an interview of a woman who had written a book about her open marriage, and to be honest, it all sounded pretty grim and depressing, not to mention logistically complicated.
The truth is I think about this woman all the time. When the interviewer asked her for any product recommendations, this woman touted the benefits of a particular waterproof dog blanket designed to protect upholstery, which she used for her frequent, messy, and fluid-filled sexual encounters. I immediately ordered that exact dog blanket myself, not for my own frequent, messy, or fluid-filled sexual encounters, but for my monogamous dog relationship. It protects the back seat from a certain giant, grubby dog and his frequently messy and, on rainy days, fluid-filled paws. At least twice a day, when we are getting in the car to head to the walking path, the open marriage lady enters my consciousness, and I feel gratitude for her and her desire for clean upholstery.
Weekly Reading
I read three extremely different books this week!
Culpability. A family travelling in a minivan with self-driving capabilities hits and kills an elderly couple in a small car. Whose fault was it? Was it the driver? Or was it the fault of the self-driving vehicle? This was a propulsive read and an interesting story, but it fell really flat for me due to the overblown and on-the-nose writing style, as well as the extensive telling, rather than showing. I found the ending flat and all of the characters to be deeply unlikeable. There are a lot of interesting threads in here, with the basic idea that AI is ruining our world, but I found the execution to be deeply lacking.
Cherry Baby. The flap copy for this book did not at all prepare me for the very lovely story of a marriage torn apart by success, and then brought back together. In fact, the flap copy is quite misleading. Nonetheless! I was so invested in these characters and their story. As well as being a love story in all its iterations, it’s also a statement on going through life in a large body, particularly in this time of GLP-1s. I loved all the characters, I loved the sister chat threads, and I loved the different romances. What an enjoyable read! There is a giant dog named Stevie Nicks, and I am here for it.
Wide Sargasso Sea. When it comes to Jane Eyre, I have always been Team Attic Wife. I mean, who WOULDN’T descend into madness after being taken from the West Indies and made to live alone in an attic in rural England? So I have long wanted to read this book, which is a prequel of sorts, and explains the life of “Bertha,” the wife in the attic – and we discover her name is not Bertha at all. It’s Antoinette, and Rochester, that evil buffoon, randomly changes it. Isn’t that just like a man, to quote Miss Cordelia once more. Anyway, I’m glad I finally read this but be warned: it’s a very complicated and difficult novel to read, with changing points of view and a lot of unspoken nuance. I had to do some research regarding the post-emancipation era in the West Indies, and its colonial history, of which I didn’t know much.
It’s been a fun week, with birthdays and cake and time in the garden. I have another fun week ahead – more birthday celebrations and more cake will be involved! I hope you all have a lovely week. xo
Alright, I’m laughing at the thought of this comment section on Swistle’s blog, where people are suggesting that this potentially swinger couple is courting her. I agree that the whole thing is weird- I would never randomly invite my husband along on a girlfriend coffee date??? People are strange.
I love the photo of Rex, and the fact that the best thing you got out of that book was a great way to keep muddy pawprints off your carseats.
I liked Culpability more than you did. There were some things about it I didn’t love (which at the moment have slipped my mind) but I did care about the characters. I guess I thought it would tackle the legal questions more, rather than being a family drama. But it was pretty good.
Enjoy your continued celebrations and cake!!!
Jenny, as I was reading it I thought “I bet Jenny would love this” because of the “mystery” aspect to it! I mean, true, there was no one with a knife in the back but still…
Hahaha Swistle is one of my oldest blog friends and her comment section is always a delight!
Nicole left out the part where, on the second coffee date with husband crasher, husband invited Swistle to his friend board game night. And when Swistle was like “Board games are NOT my thing, thanks.” Husband said, “I HAVE SOME TWO PLAYER GAMES YOU MIGHT LIKE.”
OH YES THAT PART!!! The two player games! Yes, I bet you DO! Gahhhh!
I listened to a podcast called Time Capsule: The Silver Chain. The podcast host stumbled upon an archive of newsletters from a 1970s swingers club in the Minnesota Historical Archives. While they were “anonymous,” the host was able to track down some key members and interview some of them, along with family and friends. It was heartbreaking. I’m almost sure swinging can be done within the confines of a healthy relationship, but I’ve never actually heard of it working that way.
OH! Cherry. What a frustrating character! She cried SO MUCH. I never knew if I should also be upset because she cried all the time. And the complaining about being fat without doing anything about was frustrating. It IS hard to lose weight and it IS hard to be fat. It IS all hard. But life is made up of a serious of hard things and you need to DEAL WITH THINGS. *sigh* I found Cherry to be a complicated character, even more complicated in retrospect, but it made for a frustrating read for me. (Also, this is definitely a ME problem, but dogs never get enough walks in these books. MY ENTIRE LIFE REVOLVES AROUND GETTING HOME TO WALK THE DOG. WHY DOESN’T CHERRY’S LIFE?)
Engie! I thought about the dog too! I kept thinking “Is this dog getting enough exercise? Wait, she’s not going home overnight? What if the dog needs her?” I had to remind myself that it was a fictional story!
I am going to listen to that podcast. The one I listened to, the woman *said* she was super happy! with her open marriage! and yet, it was such a grim and depressing discussion, in my opinion. Also she had teenagers, and I kept imagining explaining my new girlfriend and boyfriend, and Dad’s new girlfriend, and and and…ugh. It made me feel super gross. But I got a great dog blanket out of it!
I think the spouse/friend dynamic is probably different, with more gray areas, for lesbians. Beth and I have friends who are friends with both of us, but more so with either me or her. (We also have friends who are definitely her friend or my friend.) In the first case, I would feel fine including Beth in the outing with the more-my-friend, but as part of the initial invite, not as a sudden announcement right before the fact as happened to Swistle. It’s a different kind of get-together. (Today, in fact I am getting together with just such a friend, without Beth.)
I read WSS in college and maybe again in grad school, so it’s been decades, but I do remember liking it.
Steph, I’m so glad you said this because I was wondering what about this I found so gross – and I think there is a gender aspect to it for sure. But then again I don’t really have male friends who aren’t my friends’ husbands, if that makes sense.
I wish I had read WSS in university because I felt like I needed help with a lot of it, the context and so forth.
I put Cherry on my list. I have not read a Rainbow Rowell book in a long time! The first couple I read I really enjoyed (I think they were Eleanor and Park and Attachments) and then I had a couple of hers fall a bit flat (Landline, Fangirl and Wayward Son), so did not carry on. However, if Cherry is like the first couple, sign me up!
I agree with your son re one person enjoying it and one having dead eyes. In my mind it is a band aid when one person really wants to do it with other people, or to have the cow AND the milk at the same time. I listened to an interesting podcast, recommended by Engie, about swingers. Maybe you would like it? It is like true crime but without the crime. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/time-capsule-the-silver-chain/id1730602862
Ha! I just realized that Engie commented too about the same podcast. Whoops!
Hahaha yes, noted! I’m putting the podcast in my queue.
I have only read Eleanor and Park, and I liked it! I don’t know if this would work for you or not, but I enjoyed it a lot.
I really liked Culpability (4.5 stars rounded up to 5) and it reminded me of Good People (which I am just realizing was ALSO about a car accident/family drama/unlikeable people/power/wealth).
The sort of moral and ethical questions AI raises and the grey zones (are they grey or overtly white/black???) of AI and, well, culpability. Agreed that lots of the characters were unlikeable but I did care about them in my own way. I’ll admit I didn’t pay much attention to the writing style, I was just pulled in by the premise.
I definitely found that part of Culpability interesting! I did like thinking about the ethics and morality. I just didn’t love the execution. But I am in the minority, because I know it was a five star for Lisa as well (it was a 3.5 for me).
Okay. I definitely did NOT marry my best friend. I have a really hard time with that characterization of a marriage. How is marriage NOT ruining the friendship? Goodness. (And lest anyone think I am Anti Marriage, let me say that Rick and I have been together for almost 50 years with 45 of those being in our marriage). If he were my best friend, we’d have become estranged about 30 years ago.
Wide Sargasso Sea has been on my radar off and on for decades. I doubt I’ll read it because I am a Literature Purist who has a hard time reading anything that takes characters from a classic and redoes/reinterprets/forms a whole new narrative regarding them. I blame the horrific, terrible, awful, and poorly-written sequel to Gone With The Wind titled Scarlett. I almost burned that thing in my driveway. I know; I need to LIGHTEN UP.
You don’t need to lighten up, or I do too, because I feel the same way generally about those types of books. PARTICULARLY JANE AUSTEN. LEAVE JANE ALONE!!!
I also did not marry my best friend. Nope nope nope. I got married fairly late in life (age 36) so I had focused on female friendships for MANY years before I met Phil. I do wonder if those who get married younger are more likely to think of their spouse as their best friend? I would venture to guess that is the case for my younger sibling who got married at 21 and has moved multiple times because of her husband’s military job… I cannot fathom my husband crashing a coffee date with a girlfriend. Even if he knew the person really well! For example, my brother’s ex-wife was in town for a concert and I met her for coffee. She wanted to see Phil but Phil bowed out because the conversation is different when there’s a guy there and my SIL and I had some tea to spill. So Phil didn’t need to be the 3rd wheel for that chat.
We do know someone who is in an open relationship but he’s basically in a monogamous relationship with this other woman. And he’ll bring her to social gatherings WITH HIS KIDS ALONG. Now that I am VERY OPPOSED TO. How do you explain that to your children? Mom’s staying back and my side piece is coming to the gathering? It’s just bizarre. You won’t be surprised to hear that I am not at all open minded about polyamorous relationships. Just get divorced if you want to sleep with other people. Sheesh.
I totally see your point about the execution of Culpability. I did ultimately like the book and it made for a good book club discussion.
Um. What. That is. What? So why doesn’t he get divorced? That is absolutely bizarre. This isn’t 16th century France, people!!
Sometimes my girlfriends will be at my house for a chat, and my husband will say hi and make small talk for a few minutes. BUT THAT IS THE EXTENT OF IT! Imagine bringing him on a coffee date! When he doesn’t even know the person! It boggles the mind!
Well Nicole this one took a turn. I was nodding along – yes I’d not like to have a husband come along on a girlfriend chat, yes I love my husband and love doing this with him but I do need someone to complain about him to. Then maybe they are swingers? That took me by surprise. I have to say reading Swistle’s post before my mind never went there. The phrase “messy and fluid-filled” had me making a yuck face.
I did really enjoy Culpability but love reading your reviews. You are so insightful – I’m always impressed by your in-depth observations.
Hahaha you have to be ready for a roller coaster with me, sometimes! What tipped me off about the swinging was the husband suggesting Swistle come – alone – to games night with the husband and his buddies. What? That set off some alarm bells for me!
Over the years I have had friends “show up” with their boyfriends/husbands to something, in my mind, only the two of us were going to. I found the women to be particularly dependant on their partners. I have friends that I’ve known for years that my husband hasn’t even met. These are people I met at work or some function that he wasn’t at, and we hang out outside of my home.
Have you read the book Uncommon Arrangements: Seven Portraits of a Married Life in London Literary Circles, 1910-1939 by Katie Roiphe? I read it years ago, and much like your son’s statement, I remember jealousy was a recurring theme amongst someone in the arrangement. In other words, not everyone has having a good time.
I loved Jane Eyre and I tried to read Wide Sargasso Sea and couldn’t get into it. Your review isn’t encouraging me to try again.
I am currently catching up on Elizabeth Strout books I’ve missed. I just finished Things We Never Say and loved it!
Things We Never Say was great! But wow, WSS was a VERY difficult read. It took all my energy to read it – luckily it’s short!
See, your examples of the boyfriends/ husbands showing up was exactly my first thought – some kind of sad dependence/ control issues.
I have not read that book – but I’m going to look it up right this second!!! xo
This post was a WILD RIDE, Nicole! I loved it. I too am on the edge of my seat, speculating wildly about Swistle’s friend and her husband and their motives and their relationship and their understanding of social mores. What is going ON there????
Your comment about the snake eating its tail had me giggling. I *do* think of my husband as my best friend… but I also have several other people whom I consider to be my best friends? So maybe I am kind of loosey goosey with the terminology here, lol. Also, unless there are Extraneous Circumstances — which I would do my level best to make clear *in advance* — I cannot imagine just… SPRINGING my husband on what was supposed to be one-on-one time with a friend. That is weird. The whole thing is weird.
Your waterproof sex blanket looks wonderfully robust and Rex looks pleased to be using it for off-label purposes. 😉
What IS going on? I can’t wait for the next installment. I hope there’s a next installment! The whole thing is so strange and I feel like I need to know more!
I would characterise G as my best friend but also have good friends and my sisters who I can complain about him to. Even so, I would not bring him along to a coffee date with a friend when it was meant to just the two of us. It would certainly change the dynamic.
Your son put it very well in relation to swingers. I have a hard time believing those kind of arrangements are actually mutual.
Hahaha I love how you have people you can talk about your husband to!
Oh, I agree so much – it never feels like a mutual arrangement. I am trying to be open minded about it but I just cannot fathom it!
Nicole! How in the world did you manage to switch tonics from discussing best-friend relationships, Swistle’s very confusing situation with her former coworker, and open marriage to a dog blanket in your car that keeps everything clean from Rex’s dirty paws LOL
I also agree that open marriages and polyamory probably always only benefit ONE person and the other is begrudgingly along for the ride. I personally would find multiple romantic and sexual relationships very exhausting and yeah, logistically almost impossible. Who has the time? I barely have time for my best friends.
Lol, I hope you enjoyed the very weird roller coaster that is my brain, San! Come for the best friendships, stay for the sex blanket!
I cannot imagine having multiple sexual/ romantic relationships. I just can’t!
I have thought so much (too much?) about Swistle’s coffee / friend +1 experience since I read the posts. It’s just a totally different thing to have another whole person added to a 1:1 convo & coffee with friends, and not once, but twice! I enjoy hanging out with my Mr and my friends together, but I also very much enjoy hanging out with my friends without him, too, and that’s ok for me, haha!
We are all on the edge of our seats, wondering what is going on there!!
Listen, if swingers led you to getting the right dog car seat cover, then I am here for them. Just not here to be with them, because that’s way too much going on at one time for me. I once met a couple at a party who were very nice, but a little odd. At one point I was chatting with the wife, and she told me about the time that someone thought that she and her husband were swingers, and afterwards it dawned on me…wait a minute, did that really happen or was she telling the story to see my reaction/interest? Hmmm…
For whatever reason I decided not to read Culpability, but I indulged in the guilty pleasure of listening to the Sarah’s Bookshelves podcast spoiler discussion, so I’m up to speed on it. I feel like I made the right call on skipping the book.
I took a break in the middle of your post to sample the first few pages of Cherry Baby and I died laughing! She’s knows what it’s like to live with a dog, that’s for sure. I might get it after I finish my current book.
Enjoy the cake and parties this week!
It is way too much going on at one time! I just cannot imagine the logistics.
I THINK YOU WERE BEING COURTED!!!!
Hahaha, Nicole! The stuff you come up with! It’s always entertaining!
Those open-marriage/polyamorous/swinger situations freak me out. I just can’t imagine that any woman can be truly happy in one. It reminds me a bit of a husband with several wives… it’s just so foreign to me. It blows my mind!
At the same time, I’m strangely fascinated by it. How many people I’ve met in everyday life are secretly part of something like that? My curiosity would LOVE to know! 😂
And Kai would rather poke his eyes out than accompany me to a girls’ chat, ha!
Catrina! You know I was thinking the same thing! Does anyone I know have this kind of secret life?? But yes, I cannot imagine how anyone can be happy in such a situation. It feels very sad to me.
I’m imagining my husband coming along for a girls’ chat and thinking he would slide backward into the bushes like Homer Simpson.
I hate last minute additions to the plan too! Don’t even get me started when they word it like “I’m bringing [x], if that’s okay…” because 1. they’re most likely already on their way, and 2. I’m gonna sound like a monster when I say ‘no.’
Me and my best friend had a similar situation where our guy friend would start bringing his girlfriend (we used to also work with her but we do not like her, nobody does) to our hang outs, because she would be the one inviting herself. Yikesss 😭.
Also, I hate the whole concept of polyamory. Nope, nope, nope. I think your son’s explanation sums it up perfectly and I’m so against how my generation has been normalizing it. At least we learned about dog blankets! It looks really good and Rex seems very pleased with it 😂💖.
Right??? There is really nothing you can say politely when someone says “I’m bringing x, if that’s okay.” I mean, it sounds like it’s already happening whether it’s okay or not!
Well…..I’m not even sure what to say! You have rendered me speechless! Ha! Ha! I guess I’m odd, but I’d have no problem if a friend brought her husband, or if a friend invited another friend, or if a friend brought their kids. Unless they were mean or smelly, or did something embarassing, or if there were a certain number of tickets involved, and now we didn’t have enough tickets. Or if they were grooming me for Swinging!! NOOOOO! OMG.
MAYBE YOU WERE BEING GROOMED, MICHELLE!!! You’re so kind and sweet, and I should take a lesson from you! The more the merrier is generally my feeling – but apparently not with husbands! Lol, I should examine this thought process. I love how your caveat is that it would be okay unless they were mean or smelly – I mean, true!!! Down with the mean and smelly people!
Bringing the husband along to a girlfriend coffee date is mind boggling, as is having your hubby as your best friend. I also disagree with people who say their kids are their best friends. No, just no. You are the mother, you are not their best friend! That’s what girlfriends are for. I sometimes meet a friend for coffee and her husband will drive her there, but he doesn’t join us for coffee, even though I know him well. He’ll go wander off and do his thing and she will text him when she’s done and go off and meet him. That’s the way to do it. Surely the guy could have found something else to do while the women had coffee? And the courting thing? Well, that just blows my mind. But if that was the case, you’d think they would spring for a couple of glasses of wine, not coffee? Did they even buy?
Pearl, I know what you mean! I am extremely sure that neither of my sons would describe me as their friend, particularly not their best friend.
See, that husband knows what’s what! He sounds like a good guy!
Hahaha, if they were courting her, they should have bought BOTTLES of wine!
OK, this is a safe space, right? Good. I’ll admit the idea of swinging is titillating (and Tara isn’t entirely opposed)…but it’s one of those things that is probably way better in theory. I’ve read a lot of first-hand accounts, and they all pretty much universally agree that it’s like trying to juggle three balls with two hands (so to speak). Pretty much impossible to please everyone. One of those fantasies that is best left unfilled, I’m sure!
Having said that, I sometimes suspect my parents were (are?) swingers.
REALLY *my eyes are wide right now*
Yes of course this is a safe space and thank you for sharing! I mean, depending on the situation it might be more like juggling four balls…wait, things have devolved on my end.
Ha…four balls…what can I say? Math was never my strong suit.
My parents have always, always, had ONE close couple friend wherever they lived. I don’t know why my mind immediately jumps to tawdry things; I’m sure it’s innocent. God, I hope so, anyway!
I’m like that meme of the little girl doing a side eye and showing her front teeth right now. Eeep. The things we don’t want to think about our parents doing!
I am HERE for Mark’s comment especially about his parents! What?
I think when it comes to marriage, we sometimes expect one person to be everything for us, and then when they are not, we think our marriage is failing. A much healthier relationship is one where we know what we get from our partner, and what we do not. I am willing to go to concerts with my husband, but I am not entirely eager and sometimes wish he had a local concert buddy he could invite. I adore him, but he is not my best friend, and I am not his. I have girl friends for that (though as I was discussing on my blog today, not too many of them are local anymore, which can be hard).
When it comes to getting different things from different people, perhaps that is part of the draw of swinging? I mean, you’re getting the same thing, but what if one person really wants to try something and the other person does not? Maybe that’s where it might come in?
Personally, it is not for me, and I feel like your son is right, generally one person wants it, the other person does not. What about polygamy? One husband, more than one wife? Or (less often) one wife, more than one husband? What if a same sex couple were in a polygamous relationship? Where one spouse was married to two or more others, but they were each only married to the first? Hmmm. There’s a lot to think about here. I’m glad you got a good car seat cover out of the whole thing.
When I met Birchie, my husband showed up to say hi at the train station where I picked her up, because it’s right by his office and he was taking his lunchtime walk. When I was at a volunteer gig near his work recently, he showed up to say hi. I find these things kind of odd, but he just really loves people, and perhaps the idea of me being so close to him and NOT saying hi feels rude to him? But he doesn’t intrude or stay, just says hello.
I read Slow Dance by Rainbow Rowell, and I liked it. Not enough that I’ve gone looking for other books by her, but I did like it.
There IS so much to think about, and the podcast I listened to indicated that there was “something” that the other person wasn’t getting, but she never referred to what it was and I have always wondered. The “something” was a sex thing. WHAT COULD IT BE? She had already listed all the things she did do and I really was unsure as to what was missing on that list. But I’m not a kink expert or anything so really, it could be anything.
I think it’s a mistake to think we can get EVERYTHING from one person – we need all sorts of people in our lives! But when I say that I’m just talking regular things (like someone to go to the theatre with), not sex things.
FWIW, J–I hope to meet Ted someday!
Nicole, WSS is one of my favorites and I assign it in a course about “return” all the time–we’re reading _Jane Eyre_ now, and I can’t wait when the kids will lose their minds when they figure out what they’re getting with WSS! Isn’t it just like you to sympathize with the madwoman in the attic though?! <3
Just reading about _Culpability_ made me all anxious having just been in a traffic accident and having attended traffic court :/
Because of my maximalist tendencies, I have "Best friendS." Is that ok? And then it seems churlish not to include my special person with whom I do a lot of stuff in that list… (especially as in typical guy style, he doesn't have a big social circle and likes to say I'm his best friend.)
I knew that WSS was the “prequel” but I think if I didn’t know that, then Grace Poole would have been the key to the secret!
Yikes yikes yikes, I am sorry about the traffic accident!
Yes of COURSE, I would expect no less from you re: best friendS!
Is it weird that I’m so insecure about nominating someone as my best friend? Like, what if they don’t reciprocate. How do you know if they’re your best friend?
What’s the criteria for a best friend?
I love doing stuff with my husband but I don’t know know if I’d call him my best friend.
*spirals deeply
Meanwhile, I’m like a big hell no to inviting my husband on a girls dinner or lunch date. And thanks for reminding me to tell him I’m off for lunch with a friend tomorrow in fact.
My mother invited people along all the time and while I know her heart is in the right place, it’s annoying AF.
I mean, you can have more than one best friend! I consider my best friends to be the sisters I never had, which isn’t a really helpful metric for you, but there we are!
HI NICOLE
It really has been a baffling situation!
I have had so many feelings about it!
Wow..that’s such a weird situation. I’m kind of bold in a way that I would say, “I need some girl talk. No boys allowed today”..or something on that line. As I tell my husband when I want him to leave..don’t you need to go to Home Depot or something? lol
Judy, I think that would be a great response! I wonder if I would be bold enough to give it, should the weird situation ever happen to me (I HOPE IT DOESN’T!!!)
I am laughing out loud at your purchase of the waterproof dog blanket; you, of course, are using it for its intended purpose, and that wild woman and her fluid-filled life are using it in other ways. I’m assuming it’s washable.
The snake eating it’s own head—LOL!
I read something many, many years ago that has stuck with me. The difference between a best friend and a husband is one of them I’d like to f*ck and the other I’d like to not f*ck. 😝 Right? My husband and I are very close, and he could probably say to someone that I’m his best friend, but he means it differently than the way those people you met on that trip mean it, because he has actual male best friends.
We have a longtime friend (employee) who did the Thruple thing in his marriage — and it did not end well. We watched it all start, gather steam, and then implode. He ended up losing his wife and the third wheel in a matter of two years.
Oooooh, I like that definition!!
An actual Thruple! In real life! That’s so wild. Wow, what a thing to witness!
Well, that’s a little odd. I sure don’t understand people who are attached at the hip. But then my life’s a little odd too. (Rick and I have been together for 30 years, see each other daily, and live two blocks apart. Different style and houses works for us. For now.)
I suppose I could see it if the husband also knew your friend well and hadn’t seen her in a long time — like, a visit from out of town. We’ve done that, but it’s because we both knew the people. Though, I wouldn’t ever just show up with Rick. Just in case the friend wanted a more private conversation. But just to come when someone is local and you really don’t know them that well — it’s the two women? And then to do it twice? That’s way weird to me.
Jeanie, I didn’t know that you had different houses – I love that!
And sure, that would be the exception, if your husband knew the friend and hadn’t seen them in a long time. But this whole situation is so strange! Imagine!
Nicole, I *just* put the finishing touches on a podcast outline about marriage! One of our friends will be joining us so I can ask all of my nosey questions about marriage. Now I wish we could bring you in for another perspective!!
I think it’s REALLY weird to not be able to do things without your spouse. None of my married friends are like that, thank GOD. I don’t think it’s SUPER weird to call your spouse your best friend, but I do think you need to have strong friendship surrounding you where you do things without them!
Ooooooh I cannot WAIT to hear the episode!!!
Well I will answer any and all nosy questions about marriage – happy to!
Whoa, that was a good mix of topics here!
I feel differently but also not, about my husband as my best friend. My husband probably IS my best friend, but that doesn’t mean I married my best friend but that he became my best friend along the way. But, the relationship you have with a girlfriend (not the romantic type here!) is always different. And I totally get it about a husband crashing a coffee date. I moved to Ireland in 2019 and I do have a good friend here but sometimes we do couple dinners and that is so enjoyable. But that’s so different to just me and her having a coffee date and I need/enjoy both! Some year ago when we were over in Sweden my husband and I went to see my best friend from my youth and her husband for dinner which was great. But this year when I was over on my own I went to see her without any husbands and OMG how much I needed and enjoyed that. It’s simply different when husbands are there but I wouldn’t say no to it, as long as I also get the girl-only (I have no idea what to call this haha) coffee dates.
Oh, Susanne, how lovely – he became your best friend along the way! I love that!
And I totally agree – it’s nice to have couple time AND it’s necessary to have girl-only time!
So interesting!!! Any more details on how the first coffee date went with the husband tagging along? There’s is no possible scenario where my husband would want to join in on one of my coffee dates because these dates are usually three hours long! LOL! I’m trying to imagine any of my friends bringing along their spouse and I just don’t see it happening. We do have one couple we socialize with often and I would enjoy a coffee date more with the man than the woman, but not with both of them together. Does that sound bad of me?? I’m cracking up.
Imagine taking your husband to a girls’ coffee date! I just cannot imagine it. I’m waiting for the next installment of this!
If I asked my husband to join me and friends for a coffee date he would absolutely come. He would then be miserable the whole time but if I asked him about it after he say he had fun. He is such an angel.
Awww, that is the sweetest thing, Katie!!